This week marks us living in Chiang Mai for three years. The city has certainly changed since we first arrived as has our perception of it. In lieu of this anniversary, we’ve put together some lessons we’ve learned since moving here. They aren’t the conventional takeaways about self-improvement or inner reflection but instead the things we’ve learned about the Thai town we call home.
It’s not worth living in Chiang Mai during the smoky season
We moved to Chiang Mai in March 2013 near the peak of the hot, smoky season and couldn’t have cared less about the air quality. Neither of us have respiratory-related health issues and since we were so excited to finally be in Chiang Mai, we didn’t give much thought to the air pollution.
Four smoky seasons later, we both agree that Chiang Mai’s smoky season is ugly, dusty, and completely unhealthy. The skies are a hazy yellow, on the worst days we cough and suffer through nasal drip (TMI?), and our belongings are covered by a thin film of soot and dirt both outside and inside the house. It’s bothersome enough that each year we talk about uprooting ourselves from Chiang Mai and moving away for a month or two. We’ve actually already had friends who’ve permanently moved south specifically to get away from the smog.
And with all that said, the 2016 smoky season has been the the worst we’ve experienced so far!
Chiang Mai’s expat scene is more than sexpats
Before we were living in Chiang Mai, we got the impression that the expat demographics were almost entirely older, single European men. And even recently we’ve read articles by travel bloggers who’ve stayed in Chiang Mai for a month or two and described Chiang Mai as a haven for retired white guys shacking up with young Thai women.
Sure, we were overly aware of this when we first moved here, but that’s because that’s all that anyone talked about online! Come to find out, the city’s expat demographics go way beyond that particular stereotype. There are plenty of non-Thai couples (like us!) and families from Canada, Japan, Korea, Great Britain, Australia, and South Africa; small pairs or groups of entrepreneurs; and a lot of single women of all ages.
People are flocking to this town not just because it’s a place to retire affordably but to become teachers, to start up brick and mortar or online businesses, to do missionary and volunteer work, or to go on sabbatical. And even if a farang man is with a Thai lady, it’s not for us to judge. They may be in a healthy, genuine relationship!
Rainy season is beautiful
We assumed that the wet season would be our least favorite season and envisioned relentless rain showers that ranged from nonstop drizzles to heavy thunderstorms every single day. And since we owned a motorbike instead of a car, we dreaded the thought of driving anywhere. We were not looking forward to being stuck inside our house from June to October!
It turns out that Chiang Mai’s daily rain showers last about two hours a day and usually appear in the mid to late afternoon. It’s nothing like what we experienced at home- when the forecast said rain, it’d rain all day. If we’re out driving and it starts raining in Chiang Mai, we stop and put on our heavy duty ponchos we keep under our motorbike seat. Other than our shins and feet getting wet, it not that big of an inconvenience to drive in the rain since we don’t go far or fast around the Old City Moat.
We’re happy to admit that we look forward to this time of year. The color of the sky and land are so intensely blue and green and make for amazing photos. There are also noticeably fewer tourists in town (scared away by the hype over rainy season), so it’s safer to drive and it’s more pleasant to go into town without being smothered by crowds.
You CAN’T live like a king for $500 per month
It’s challenging to live comfortably on 500 USD per month in Chiang Mai, let alone like a king. This idea continues to circle around the internet and mislead aspiring expats, making it one of our biggest pet peeves.
To be completely honest, we’ve tried living in Chiang Mai as a couple on 1,000 USD per month and it sucked. On a budget like that we could only afford the essentials – rent, utilities, produce purchased from Thai markets to cook at home or street stall meals, and cheap clothing and home goods from Thai markets. We had little money left over for socializing or drinking (well, only the local rum and beer), traveling beyond short day trips, eating Western food more than once or twice a week (or buying Western anything for that matter), or emergency expenses.
Although it’s possible to survive on 500 USD a month, you definitely can’t live like a king for $500 a month! As we came to terms with our budget, we can agree that it’s possible for a single person (baby mama not included) to live comfortably on about 1,000 USD.
Chiang Mai has almost everything you need
There are hospitals, shopping malls, and international schools. As in way more than one. There are European restaurants galore and several international grocery stores. There are clinics and pharmacies, legal services, dentists, eye doctors, and specialists in maternity care. There are stores that sell health supplements and special healthcare and grooming products, clothes that fit larger, taller people, home decor, and big plushy furniture. There are incredible electronic shops and major home appliance stores. Basically, you can find almost anything you need (or at least a suitable replacement) in Chiang Mai.
Here are a few examples of things we later proved ourselves wrong simply because we hadn’t been looking in the right places:
1. We could hardly find freshly brewed coffee and we went months without seeing coffee beans. We were convinced that Chiang Mai only sold packets of instant coffee! We have since been proved very wrong as there are countless coffee shops in Chiang Mai selling fresh espresso drinks and whole and ground coffee beans.
2. We spent far too much on things like bed sheets and new single voltage electronics at the big Westernized department store. We later found completely suitable alternatives for about a fifth the price at Thai markets (that we were too scared to go into before).
3. We had written about 10 Things We’re Glad We Brought. We eventually found everything on that list in Chiang Mai during our first year here, even down to the Old Bay (a seasoning used in Chesapeake Bay region on America’s east coast).
If you can’t find it in Chiang Mai, take an hour and twenty-minute flight to Bangkok. Whatever you’re trying to find is there.
Your head will explode after looking for help from online forums
Yes, we too scoured the online forums before moving here. Later we turned to Facebook groups for more. To get to the good bits of information, one must dig through opinionated remarks, trolling, and slander. The constant trash talking from bitter expats and the answers that are regularly off topic, incomplete, or judgmental ultimately devalue the forums and make them hardly worth the effort to read. The times that we’ve stuck it out to find out what we’ve needed, we have to a few deep breaths to clear our minds and calm down afterward. Jokingly we sometimes feel like we need a beer or a glass of wine!
| FUN FACT: These forums and Facebook groups are what ultimately inspired us to become the blog we are today and eventually set up the Thailand Expat Academy. After feeling misinformed and frustrated one too many times, we figured we could offer concise, complete, and generally opinion-free information for expats who had the same questions and curiosities as we do. |
Chiang Mai’s cool season is actually freezing at night
Ok, maybe not literally 32⁰F (0⁰C) freezing but in the months of December, January, and February, nights can get surprisingly cold! Sadly, people die in Chiang Mai after particularly cold nights. We were shocked when we first learned this. How was that possible if the nightly temperatures hovered only around 55⁰F (13⁰C) during that time of year?
While it may sound like the perfect evening temperature to some people (admittedly we thought that was a bit chilly but certainly not cold), it’s a lot different when your body has acclimated to Chiang Mai’s daytime temperature of 90⁰F (32⁰C) or higher. Plus if it’s 55⁰F outside, it’s nearly 55⁰F inside the house, too. That’s because apartments, condos, and houses here don’t have proper insulation. Based on what we’ve seen at construction sites and from what we can tell about our own house, walls are constructed using a single layer of concrete or wood.
If you’re living in a Thai style house then it’s really cold. These types of houses stay cool based on a design that allows cross breezes along the ceiling. Sure, it’s great on hot days, but it allows cold winter air to pool into the house at night. Oh, and houses aren’t equipped with heaters (and definitely not fireplaces), and neither are cars. Combined with the lack the proper cold-weather clothing, this time of year is actually pretty miserable!
We learn a lot from other Chiang Mai blogs
Chiang Mai continues to surprise us. Thanks to other blogs and travel websites, we continue to stumble across fun things to do and places to visit in and around Chiang Mai. We also enjoy reading blog posts written by people who are living in Chiang Mai and are sharing their experiences about working, volunteering, or simply exploring Thai life. Their articles come off as honest and fresh and it reminds us when we had those same thoughts and feelings.
Sometimes we read posts about Chiang Mai with caution simply because this city is written about so often and people tend to describe it in extremes. They either express their frustrations or infatuations after only living here for a few weeks and they make broad stroked implications that all of Chiang Mai is like that.
Ahhh, now we sound like disgruntled, know-it-all old time expats! To be fair, we’ve looked back on some of our oldest blog posts and cringed at some of the things we’ve said. We admit to using the wrong terminology, screwing up facts, or simply coming across as naive. It really came down to two things: we hadn’t had enough time to explore and experience Chiang Mai to draw unbiased conclusions and we hadn’t met enough expats who shared their own experiences and tips so that we had a well-rounded, representative perception of the city.
Chiang Mai isn’t pet-friendly
We had wrongly assumed that the pet culture in Thailand would be the same as it was in the USA. From our own experience and what we’ve gathered from most of our friends who own pets here, Chiang Mai is not pet friendly. If you have a little foofoo dog it’ll be generally ok (we think every we know can agree on that) but if you want to have a cat or a big dog, you’ll be SOL.
Teeny tiny dog breeds (Chihuahuas, Pugs, Pomeranians, Maltese, Miniature Poodles, Terriers) are very popular in Chiang Mai and you can guarantee that your pup will be coddled and coo’ed over by the Thai community. There are plenty of shops selling itty bitty collars and jackets and booties and small bags and cans of dog food.
But what about big dogs? Large bags of dog food and big supplies and heavy duty toys are nearly impossible to find. There is also a severe street dog problem in Chiang Mai, making it difficult to safely walk your dog no matter what their size is.
As for cats, Thais generally don’t like them. We’ve been told very matter-of-factly (on more than one occasion) that they are ‘dirty.’ It was hard to swallow at first but now we understand why. The vast majority of cats in Chiang Mai are feral, so the only ones you see are the ragtag, slinky little demons that let loose nightmarish howls at night, leave ‘kitty cookies’ in fenced-in yards, and mark their territory like dogs do. We brought our cat from the USA and it’s been difficult to finding a place to live that allows felines indoors, probably because feral Thai cats really are pretty icky.
That’s not to say you shouldn’t bring your beloved cat or dog to Thailand, but it means there will be limitations and some hangups regarding pet care, pet safety, and living situations.
What’s in store for us in the future?
Who knows what we’ll be doing this time next year or even three years from now. But at the moment, we’re happy here in Chiang Mai. It’s turned into a hub that allows us to easily travel to other parts of Thailand and Southeast Asia, which is awesome!
PIN IT FOR LATER!
Looking for a friend from Alaska that is in chiang Mai. Cole Amber! I lost contact with him some months back. His wife’s name is Nok if anyone knows of them tell him to get ahold of DR.Arnce
Thanks so much for this blog! I think it covers more straightforward and honest assessment of retiring in Chiang Mai. I am 65, have a large dog, old guy, but cannot leave him behind. I did find what appears to be a pretty good place in North Chiang Mai called the Flora house. I did spend 3 weeks in Chiang Mai 4 years ago. With all of my research and investigation over the years for all the reasons you mentioned Chiang Mai is probably the best bet for me. I’ll be selling my house here in New Mexico. And be… Read more »
Great info on the smoky season, thank you! I have asthma so that’s a legit concern. I immediately thought “hey, that would be the perfect time of year to travel in Europe!” I could also escape to the coastal cities or take those 2 months to explore other parts of Asia. Do a lot of expats leave during the smoky season? International retirement is still a few years off for me but I know I’m going to do it. I’ve lived overseas before (Taipei) and caught the travel bug in my 20’s.
Thank you so much for your thoughtful information. I bid you good health during this time.
Yep. 100% agree that the smoky season is definitely becoming too much now. I love Chiang Mai but have thought about moving away especially as I have a son on the way. In the end thats probably what will have to be done unless something changes.
So happy to have stumbled upon this blog! I’m in Chiang Mai and looking for a printing shop where the staff speaks English- any recommendations? Also looking for a designer to do some quick edits to a business card I’m trying to get printed. Thanks!
We’ve used ActsCo Printing in Chaing Mai to make business cards.
Great Info without the expats whining or slanting things. Moving there in Aug of 2019, Retired Navy here perhaps we will meet up for a coffee someday. Thanks for the great Blog. Please drop me a line to inform me of how we froM THE us CAN get out monthly pension checks there, Hate to have to use the ATM every month, Thank You
If you are retired in Thailand, you should have a Thai Non Immigrant O-A Retirement Visa. With this type of visa, you are eligible to open a Thai bank account – and will eventually be required by the Thai government if you want to continue extending your Thai retirement visa. Then, transfer your money from your American bank account to your Thai bank account monthly. We recommend Bangkok Bank. They have some of the best exchange rates and already are partnered with the US (they have a NY branch.)
Greetings!!! If you would like to live (and possibly retire in Thailand) at age 43 from the US, what would you suggest as to the best visa with $5000 monthly assets?
Hm, get METV visas for as long as you can, peppered with some volunteer and education visas. If you have enough money, you can just buy an Elite Visa.
That’s funny I remember seeing you both at Central hotel gym. My wife and I were living in Chiang Mai for about two years. But we decided we need more cash to stay there for the long term. Jobs for Thais and Farang can be found but the pay is horrific. We’ll eventually go back one day, My wife’s parents retireed from bangkok to live in the cooler climate. You both still in Chiang Mai? Another thing I found difficult was that people are always coming and then going permanently, which isn’t what I’m looking for. I had some really… Read more »
We remember you, too! You’re right about making money over there – most of it’s peanuts unless you can land something with an international company. We moved to Bangkok but no longer live there now. It’s very difficult living in Thailand long term because so many people leave. We totally understand your pain!
Chiang Mai has changed considerable over the last ten years. The pollution levels are now extremely hazardous for two to three months of the year and getting worse, with many days having the highest pollution readings globally. For anyone considering Chiang Mai as a retirement destination……unless you are willing to uproot and move somewhere else for three months of the year, or live with the health hazards I wouldn’t do it.
Agreed!
Hi there, I am from Singapore and am thinking of taking a short break in the first week of May. I was just wondering if its safe to go, what with burning season and all. Would all the bad air have dissipated somehow by then? I am asthmatic so that poses as a problem. Thanks for letting me know!
If you are asthmatic then we don’t recommend you visiting Chiang MAi (or any part of northern Thailand) during the first week of May. We cannot say there will be clear skies and healthy enough for you until a month later in the beginning of June. :/
thank you so much for writing this blog! it is so informative and tells me exactly what i needed to know. i was in double mind before but now i am sure that i want to visit and explore Chiang mai.
You’re welcome :)
Not true that CM is not pet friendly. Large 20kg bags of dogfood can be found at Big C and pet stores. People are friendly towards dogs. True about other soi dogs, but you just have to pick the best time to take them out for walks.
Yes, large bags of dog food can be found at the large grocery stores, but the variety is lacking and there are hardly any toys, beds, crates, leads, etc for large dogs. People who are dedicated to taking out their dogs for walks will work around soi dogs, but it’s a risk not fun taking if your schedule doesn’t allow for the “best time”.
Hi! Interesting note on your blog about cats. We moved from the US to Penang, Malaysia about 1 year ago and have been looking at Chiang Mai as our next destination in 2020. We have 2 purebred indoor cats. In Malaysia, some renters just “go for it” and risk breaking a lease rule. Or, they may offer a higher rent to cover damage concerns. Curious if you have heard if others do this in Chiang Mai and how strict landlords can be. Just wondering what options might be there. Also, we deal with the smoky season here too, but it… Read more »
Thanks for commenting! We have not personally heard landlords increasing rent for tenants with pets (aka, charging a “pet rent” on top of the regular rent). We were asked to leave a condo after living there for three weeks when they saw we had a cat, but we’ve had friends who had a cat and never had a problem even though they were not in a pet-friendly place. Chiang Mai experiences 2 dangerously smokey MONTHS (March, April May), and smoke in December January, February, and May. We’ve seen and smelled smoke as early as November. Wish it was only three… Read more »
A landlord in Thailand has the right to end the lease and ask you to leave immediately in Thailand for not informing landlords you have pets before moving in. In fact having lived and worked in Thailand for 21 years, I know people who have been asked to leave rented property. It’s also likely landlords will ask for a pet deposit equivalent to one months rent so you need to be aware of this. Is it safe for cats? I would say yes. I have two cats (one pure breed). Never have I had issues and never has a Thai… Read more »
Hi, I am moving to Thailand in about 2 months. Maybe I got lucky but I found a pet friendly place to stay at least temporarily called the Flora house. They will accept me and my hundred pound dog on a longer-term lease, three to six months. Not the cheapest place but gets great reviews. For me $450 a month. Plus electric and water which I understand is not a lot. From my experience, almost no hotels or condo rentals will accept pets. Last time I was in Chiang Mai I found that the best thing to do, was basically… Read more »
Not easy to find US size 12 shoes in CM.
So true!
Hello Chris and Angela, Thank you for sharing this information. it was very helpful. My fiance and I are thinking about moving to Chiang Mai. However, my biggest concern is my dog. I know you mentioned that Thias aren’t exactly pet friendly. He is a Bichon Frise. I would like to take him for regular walks and out to the park (green areas) to run and play. Do you think it is likely that a street dog will attack him? Do they have reliable vet care there? Do you think the sidewalk or road will burn his feet? Thank you!… Read more »
Most of the parks in Chiang Mai do not allow dogs but we know people take their dogs to Chaing Mai University park to run around. Street dogs don’t normally attack unprovoked, but since your dog is small, you can pick it up and get away. We recommend carrying a batton or stick with you until you learn where the street dogs hang out and where you are safe. Yes, there is reliable very care near the city. The sidewalks will probably burn the dog’s feet at first but then your dog will get used to it. Invest in some… Read more »
Hello Chris and Angela. I want to move to Chiang Mai and live/work there. I have the opportunity to work remotely and want to take advantage of that. My monthly income would be 2000 plus. Do you recommend coming on a tourist visa, going straight for retirement visa (I am 50) or come on the tourist visa first and then look in to the retirement visa? How did you guys do it?
If you meet the qualifications for a retirement visa (50 years or older, balance or monthly equivalent of 800,000 thb a year) then we recommend getting a retirement visa before coming over. This is because you can only apply for a retirement visa in your home country (rather than other visas where you can apply in Thailand’s neighboring country for convenience). However, there is a small loophole in which you can come over on a tourist visa and then apply for a retirement visa *extension* in Bangkok before the tourist visa is up. However, this only works if you money… Read more »
Hi we’ve just moved to Chiang Mai ( 2weeks ago) on a retirement visa. Went to NY as they have a 24 hour turnaround ( as long as you have all paperwork needed)
We made extra copies of passport and well everything just in case. The website is simple to understand and you can phondcthem for questions. No problem no line and now we’re in Thailand. Our belief is folks that have had issues I’d due to them trying to scam the country. You can work remotely as long as you get paid outside of a Thailand company.
Hi Neil from new Zealand I met a nice lady in chiang mai and have opened a shop there my partner runs it I come and help out when I am there.i stay at my partner’s place with her 20year old son she took me to nan noi to meet her aunts she uys gifts for my grandchildren and sends to nz.alot of people say watch out for scammers are these the actions of scammer ?
We couldn’t say without knowing more details. Sending gifts sounds like a nice gesture.
Great info. We’re here for five months, leaving end of January. We have access to car and find getting around is relatively easy with gps and patience. NO HORNS! Love it as they would be constant in states. Grab (Uber) has been great. Not fan of Thai food but alternatives are great. Right on for living expenses. Short term easy to sublet house. Son/family live here so we had help with that. Sept/Oct still hot/humid. If short stay, come late Oct to miss that. A/C in our house but expensive to run. People very helpful/kind. Be kind, polite works great… Read more »
Thanks for commenting, Howard. Glad you found this post helpful … even if you didn’t see it before coming here. Hope you love Chiang Mai as much as we do.
Wow Great insights guys.. Looking forward to your updates..
Great blog Chris and Angela, thank you. I was wondering how easy it is to get a job there and whether the pay is reasonable to give a good standard of living? I am an electronic field engineer and qualified as a project manager. Specialised in CT and MRI scanners in hospitals but that said could do anything similar.
Cheers
Dean
Hi Dean, Thailand is all over the place when it comes to work. We would recommend calling some of the major hospitals in Bangkok (Bumrungrad, etc.) to see how receptive they are to hiring someone with your background. Many of the hospitals hire internationally qualified medical staff, but we aren’t 100% sure when it comes to specific areas of expertise. Bets of luck!
Fantastic, trustworthy article. You guys have a YouTube channel?
Yes, but we quickly realized that making videos wasn’t for us!
Excellent fair and honest assessment! I moved from San Diego to a place in Mexico 18 months ago both with near perfect weather so i’m spoiled! I’m not feeling MX is it. I’ve travelled extensively and years ago spent 3 months in Thailand over 2 trips (all in Dec, Jan) and loved it, including CM. Concerns about climate: The seasons are really not very appealing- it’s either unbearably hot and humid, smoky, rainy (a minus without a car) or too cold at night! So can one buy a space heater for the house? In my MX town we have rainy… Read more »
It’s cold at night for about 1 month. Yes, you can buy a space heater :) And don’t throw out your cold-weather clothes! Depending on a person’s tolerance to heat/cold, some expats just loooooove the 75/55 degree weather (daytime/nighttime) that time of year. During the rainy season in Chiang Mai, it rains for 1-3 hours per day, usually in the middle of the day. It also rains at night. However, much of the morning and afternoon is sunny. About once a week there is one major rainy day. It’s not too bad, really and nothing like southern Thailand (which rains… Read more »
Hi, I’m wondering what would be a good source to look into the holistic and wellness/spiritual community and business?
I’m 34 and would like to visit for a while with the possibility of staying a little longer term. Just wondering.
Also, in CM, can room and board be exchanged for services?
Also, do you find there’s an array of organic food available there?
Thanks!
Hi Chris & Angela, Thanks for all this great info, we loved reading your tips. We are a couple in our early 50,s, looking to live in Thailand for around 4 months Nov – March. We like the sound of Chiang Mai, do you have any tips on how to secure a nice condo/villa for our stay. We are Scottish so 50 degrees in the evening is bliss!!! Should we use an agency to find accommodation before we come out or should we book a holiday apartment for a week and look around when we arrive? all your advice will… Read more »
Hi Mandy. We always recommend that you book a comfortable hotel room for the first week very close to the city center so that you have easy access to public transportation (songthaew, GrabTaxi, etc) to easily explore for a place to live. Then you can hunt around on your own for a serviced apartment, which rent out in days, weeks, and months and has basic provisions like linens, kitchenware, trash cans, etc. From our experience, the big name agencies typically list housing for one year leases (6 months at the very least). Do not settle for anything longterm based on… Read more »
Hey Chris & Angela
Love your posts, so informative and easy to navigate :)
We’ve just moved to CM from NZ for a few month’s. Unfortunately we arrived during burning season :(
So we’re thinking of leaving for a month, to go somewhere down south.
But I just don’t know where…
Where do you guys go, to escape burning season? Is there somewhere in Thailand that’s a similar cost of living to CM?
I know the cost of living on some of the islands can be quite high.
Any feedback would be appreciated :)
Thanks
Thanks Layla, glad you loved it :) Your suggestion about escaping the burning season couldn’t have come at a better time. Next Monday, we’ll be publishing a blog post addressing that exact issue. You must have been getting vibes from us as we wrote it and put together the photos. Stay tuned!
Whoa, I didn’t know that about cats. Hit me right in the stomach. Thanks for the information, probably moving there soon.
Yeah, the feral cats here are mangey little monsters (and that’s coming from two animal lovers). We didn’t believe it until we saw it for ourselves! So different from our plump, fluffy, friendly cat we brought from the USA. But hey, it was a good decision because he’s really happy here – heat, bugs, and all.
Great blog! I love the info, and I’m looking forward to checking out Chiang Mai. It seems like leaving during smoky season is a good idea, as it is also the cold season. You’d say they are the same months, generally? Dec-Mar or so? Where would you recommend going during those times of year? Does Bangkok also experience a smoky season? I feel like Bali could be a good winter season alternative, though I’m nervous about Indonesia’s laws. I currently live in L.A, and most apartments here don’t have heating or AC because the weather is so good, but man…45… Read more »
Hi Gabriel, thanks for reaching out. March and April are the worst months of Chiang Mai’s smoky season and they actually have some of the year’s hottest weather. While December through February may see light haze and cooler morning/evening temperatures (we sleep in sweat pants and hoodies and double up on blankets), the days are very pleasant and enjoyable. With that said we wouldn’t recommend leaving until the very end of February or early March. For more specifics see our detailed post on Chiang Mai’s smoky season. Bali starts to see some of its best weather of the year in… Read more »
Thanks Chris and Angela!
Hello :-) We are thinking of retiring to Chiang Mai – looking for an adventure (we’re not *old* retirees :-)) – but are concerned about the comments about Chiang Mai being not terribly cat friendly. We have two cats who are used to living outdoors and exploring the bush nearby so they are definitely not indoor cats. Leaving them behind is not an option so before exploring our things further and planning a reccie visit – are we wasting our time? If we were to live somewhere slightly outside of the city would that help?
We understand your concern with your two cats. We think it’s best for you to live outside the main city area (5+ kilometers away) in a neighborhood where most of the yards are already fenced in and where most people keep their dogs locked up. This will allow your furbabies to be outside a bit, and you can decide whether or not you can let your cats roam outside the fence or keep them contained.
Traveling to Chiang Mai in Oct….Can you trust the bacon? I see a lot of food shops with bacon on the plate and I’m suspect
We have assumed that the shops that serve real bacon are importing their products. Thai style ‘bacon’ (that’s advertised at guesthouses serving 99 baht American breakfasts) is usually untreated pork belly or lunch meat ham.
Hello Great blog! I am a Journalist who quit his job in order to go travelling. But after couple months, as it sometimes happens, I found a part-time-job I couldn’t say no to. I can work from wherever I want, just need a stable internet-connection and earn nice cash. I want to give Southeast Asia a chance since I have never been there and look for the best place. Can you guys recommend me to come to Chiang Mai? My monthly budget ist 2500-4000 Dollars (at least 2500, rest depends how much I want to work next to my part-time-job.… Read more »
Chiang Mai is amazing! We can say that you can live comfortably on 1000 USD per month. Depending on your lifestyle and how many Western comforts you want, it goes up from there. We think that on 2000 USD you can have a very comfy life here! – going to Western restaurants, indulging in alcohol, traveling, Western amenities, etc. We have very fast and reliable internet connection but we live in a detached house and had it hooked up after we moved in. You can have your own internet installed or upgraded as long as you live in an apartment,… Read more »
Thank you so much for the fast and detailed answer. Would like to show my grattitude in inviting you for dinner once I’m settled there (not 100% sure I move there, have some more research to do, but looks promising so far)
Hi, I’m Thai and just moved back to Thailand from U.S. about 4 years ago and want to move to Chiang Mai to start a small eco village project there, in part because of Bangkok traffic, polution, and cost of living and in part because we want to start a project which might be easier to start in a city where there is more nature than concrete. A lot of Bangkokrians are moving up north now a days, and I am wondering, is it worth moving to Chiang Mai? How bad is the smoky season there? Is it worst than… Read more »
There isn’t as much car or noise pollution in Chiang Mai as Bangkok, but Chiang Mai has two solid months (March and April) in which the smoke from burning farmlands is really bad – bad enough to begin to bother ‘healthy’ people and enough to send anyone with lung issues running inside… or to another part of the country. If you are really sensitive, you’ll feel the effects of the smoke even in January, February, and May. You can read more about it and see pictures comparing the times of year in our post about the smoky season. But if… Read more »
Hi Chris and Angela,
very nice and honest stories.
it takes tremendous decision to make a move to Thailand..
right now the life should be good for both of you now..
keep learning Thai and everything will be okay.
Cheers
Tao
Thanks for your words of encouragement, Tao!
Hello Chris and Angela, I totally agree with you. I have been living in Chiang Mai for one year now with my husband (last year we were in Pattaya where we stayed 5 years). We just wanted to see how it was to live in the north of Thailand. Chiang Mai is a very interesting city, maybe even more interesting than Pattaya on many points. The real problem is the smoking season (right now), a few years back it lasted for 2 months approx. but now it’s more 4 months or even more. Like you say, the sky is yellow… Read more »
We agree! The smoky season is so sneaky – it creeps in and everyone’s bodies might not show signs of the damage it’s causing to their lungs, but it is hurting everyone on a cellular level – even for healthy adults. Too bad rumors go around saying the only people who should be worried are children, the elderly, and people with pre-existing lung problems should be concerned. WRONG. It’s especially eye-opening when we’ve left Chiang Mai for a brief trip to a cleaner, clearer place (we’ve done it every year) and when we come back we’re suffering itchy eyes, sore… Read more »
Where does this yellow sky come from and what causes it? We spent a month in Bangkok and LOVED it. The people, culture, food. We want to go back to live. Only issue is my wife can not handle the heat/ humidity.
Any suggestion is welcomed
The yellowness is caused by the smoke from the farmers burning their field. The smoke produces gases (nitrogen oxides, carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, and other hydrocarbons) as well as microscopic particulate matter – like ultra-fine dust – that is so light that it stays in the air. The gases and ‘dust’ are what causes the yellow color and lack of visibility. We JUST wrote a post about ‘When is the best time to visit Thailand?‘ In it, we mention that during the cool season, if you go to Northern Thailand (like Chiang Mai) around near the end of December and… Read more »
Hi guys,
Great blog you have, very useful thank you very much. I would like your opinion please…I am looking to teach English in South East Asia – open to where really and I have offered the opportunity to teach in a school in Lamphun. Apparently lots of teachers live in Chang Mai and commute in as there is not much happening locally.
This is the first offer I have had. If you were me would you take it or would you keep on looking for something better?
Thanks very much. Keep up the awesome work!
Nick x
Thanks for the kind words. It is really hard to say either way because of the number of variables involved. You could take the position and stick it out through the first semester. If you don’t like it for whatever reason you could then do some research and try switching schools during the semester break. Just make sure that the new school is on the ball when it comes to switching over your work permit/paperwork as it is a time sensitive process. Another option is to come here during a month where schools are off for the semester and go… Read more »
Hey guys,
I’m coming to teach English in Chiang Mai April 20th (Smokey season, booo).
I will have to make my visa run soon after that, and this is somewhat concerning for me. Can you share more details about where exactly you went in Laos? Any information would be helpful. Thanks so much.
Rob
Absolutely. Check out our guide to doing a visa run from Chiang Mai, Thailand to Vientiane, Laos. Good luck!
Hi Chris & Angela…….I`m contemplating buying a new electric motor scooter here in China (about 3,500 Yuan/$660 Aud.) & bringing it to Chiang Mai when we move (July ?)..OR…are they cheap enough in Thailand.
ALSO……do we bring our electric cooking equipment or is it cheap enough to buy.new stuff….what about a desktop computer…are they expensive there ?……..if Chiang Mai stacks up as good as all the stuff I read….we plan to stay there…….we`re both retirees (Chinese & an Aussie.)…….great reading all the informative stuff….thanks.
You can buy a good second-hand scooter in Thailand for around that same price, but if you were to import a scooter her expect to pay a huge import fee! It’s not worth the money and processing all the paperwork in our mind. Since electric cooking appliances are the same voltages, yes, we recommend bringing them. No use throwing those items away or selling them for next to nothing if you are happy with them and plan to use them in Thailand. A desktop computer is around the same price as in Western countries (as are most electronics) – it’s… Read more »
Chris and Angela, I enjoy your blog and the great information. I’ve read several of your posts. I was wonderfing if one can find heating blankets for the winter season? We have adapters and used them a lot in Poland and China. Does Chiang Mai use 220 power on everything?
We’re just looking into possibilities for retirement at some point. Thanks so much and keep up the great posts!
Thailand’s voltage is 220-240V, so if you’re using a single-voltage appliance from China or Poland it will be ok. You will have to get a plug adapter like you mentioned (no need for a converter). Our best guess at a heated blanket for the winter is to go to one of the major department stores – Tesco or Robinsons is a good place to start. Expect to pay western prices, though! Thanks for commenting and keep us bookmarked for future reference while you plan for retirement. :)
Hi Chris and Angela,
About the budget of US$1,000 per month, may I know how much was spent on rent per month? If you could give a rough breakdown it would be appreciated. Cheers.
Check out our cost of living breakdown we did last year. We talk about rent, utilities, and a lot more.
Hi! Read your blog with interest as we like to hear thoughts of other American expats living here. We are in year two (18 months and counting) and like it more every day. We have lived in Central America for 6 years prior and find this to be much more sophisticated and friendly, people wise and money wise. We do live like kings, but more like a $3000 a month budget. Healthcare is fabulous and ultra inexpensive. Food is fabulous. The only part we don’t like is being so far away from family in the US.
Thailand is amazing, and your opportunity to work anywhere in the world sounds like a dream. Have you tried working nights? I tried it for a month once and just couldn’t do it. I couldn’t readjust on the weekends and felt isolated from friends and family. Costa Rica and Central America might be good options too.
We’ve looked at a few places in Central America – MUCH easier to talk with people and family who are in the USA. But alas, our home is Thailand for now… and better to be on a daytime schedule :)
You’re not exaggerating about the smoky season. It’s pretty intolerable all over. In 2015 I was up near Monywa, Myanmar, where they were burning just about everything. Hell on earth up there. I decided to escape to Chiang Rai but it was little better. When our plane landed at Tachileik at the Thai border the visibility was so poor you couldn’t even see the ground until the plane was just above the runway. The smoke in Chiang Rai was so bad it burned your throat and your eyes were constantly stinging and streaming with tears. I remember seeing Prayuth Chan-ocha… Read more »
You’re right – it’s not just Thailand but Burma too! (have been there in April) MAKE IT STOP! Every year we say we’re going to leave for a little while but something always holds us back… teaching, language class, etc. This year it’s the same but we may just see if there’s a possible workaround. It’s now worth it anymore because we DO feel the effects on our eyes, throats, lungs, etc. Beaches, here we come (hopefully)!
For anyone intending to visit chiang Mai I would highly recommend Chiang Dao- 1 hour bus drive from Chiang Mai and breathtakingly beautiful.
No noise, pollution, or any of the negatives of CM- pure beauty and chic place.
We stayed at Nest 1:
http://www.chiangdaonest.com/
The food is fantastic.
Take a trek to beautiful hillside temple and stop at the delightful food van for a sublime burger and delicious smoothie:
Jerns@chiangdao
They serve food daily till 2.30pm from their uber cool van.
Thanks for sharing that bit about the food van in Chiang Dao. Sounds like fun!
Great conversation. My partner and I are planning a short stay in Chiang Mai, (like 3 months), and eventually would like to rent a single family house somewhere outside the city with some land where I can have a huge veg garden and room for our dogs. Yet we don’t want to be too far from old area… like 45 min drive. Any ideas would be appreciated.
Scott
Try looking in the Doi Saket or San Kampaeg Districts. They are about 45 minutes east of the Old City.
Yes, Samkempeng on the 1006 is 4 sets of traffic lights from the old city has lots of food options baht barbiques and Tesco and Carrfore supermarkets with 20 baht songtaws (public shared red taxis) per journey.
Glad I stumbled (okay, stalked) your blog ;) First, apologies for the long post…. I’m a single white female of “a certain age” (okay, approaching 60) who has an amazing job that allows me to work any where I have an internet connection. I’ve been to Thailand a few times (the south, Phuket, BKK) and ventured to Chiang Mai (quite by accident last month..was going for two days, stayed for four) …returned stateside and immediately purchased a ticket to come back in April (for what I thought would be another vacation, but have decided to seriously house hunt and live… Read more »
What a good news story! We think that if you maintain substantial cash flow after you’ve moved to CM, you can pay off your debt while living here in no time. As far as the location of a two bedroom house or condo, what’s your budget and how close to you want to be to the Old City? Giving specific recommendations for property websites, neighborhoods, and buildings based on your preferences is something we do for our Thailand Coaching clients because it takes some time to come up with options. Why not check it out and see if this service… Read more »
Chris and Angela, thanks for the info. My wife and I are planning on moving to Chiang Mai next year. We only plan to stay about 9 months, but who knows we may fall in love and stay even longer. I am finishing up a 20 plus year career in the military and want to experience the world with my wife. I would love to keep in contact with you to get more information that would help us on our upcoming move to Thailand.
Wow, congrats on making the big decision to live in Thailand! Nine months is a good place to start and get a feel for the country, although if you’re like us then yes, you’ll fall in love and want to stay. There are so many traveling opportunities in SE Asia, too, but Thailand is a great place to start and get comfortable with the Eastern world. We’d be happy to help you prepare for your big move – perhaps you’d like to schedule a coaching session with us? There’s lots of information throughout our blog, too, from expat stuff to… Read more »
Its not like its polluted terribly outside of Chiang Mai city. My Thai wife and I have lived here for 4 years south of Chiang Mai. Its not like a Los Angeles or New York City at all. Those that are giving anyone that impression are wrong….
What’s sad is that Chiang Mai’s smoky season is three solid months of yellow cloudless skies with a red sun and the stink of burning hanging in the air. It might not be all year round like LA and NY, but it’s enough where healthy adults like ourselves get sick (not jut people who have existing respiratory issues that then get exasperated). We’ve sucked it up the first few years living here but every smoky season we begin scheming how we can escape to the islands for some fresh air. On the flip side, giving the impression that Chiang Mai… Read more »
You say there is a severe street dog problem there. I’m an expat on an island in the Phils for 30 months and thinking about relocating there. Here, we have a lot of street dogs, and at first they concerned me (they seem spooked by foreigners), but they do not bite. What are your experiences with them there? What have you heard from others? I like to walk each day for 2-4 miles and this is my biggest concern.
We’ve written about our experiences in two separate posts, Is Thailand pet friendly? and The Ups and Downs of Owning a Pet. But to make a long story short, it’s too risky to take your dog on walks. Strays are everywhere. Many are timid, some are curious, but all it takes is one ballsy one (or god forbid a small pack) to go after you and bite you or your dog. Even dogs that aren’t strays but are allowed to run loose pose a threat (that happened to us when we were walking a friend’s dog – we had to… Read more »
It’s helpful to read an objective point of view. Thanks. We’re arriving in CM later this week and staying until early January. Our intent is to simply enjoy being away as a family for a few months (we have a 5yo), but it will also be a preview trip. We are very open to what comes our way. I am interested in understanding how you have been able to live in Thailand and work, even stay past 90 days, as the visa options seem rather clear about not being able to stay and work as an expat. I’m an international… Read more »
There are other options far beyond the single entry tourist visa, which grants you 60 days plus an extension for 30 days (90 days total as you had mentioned). We have been on different visas depending on our situation and have chosen a visa depending on if we want flexibility to travel, if we want to work, if we want to study, etc. Years ago we came over on a tourist visa (at the time, it was a triple entry but now they are offered as a METV, and is good for up to 9 months) – and recommend anyone… Read more »
Love the comments…The whole sexpat thing is really weird…..I mean Im a 43 year good looking guy from california and Im i thinking about coming to thailand for lots of reasons….Is the sexpat thing overwhelming for single guys/girls or r there single girl/guys that are not thai there? Questions: I was thinking of spending a couple weeks in bangkok first, then coming to chaing mai…When is the smoky season??????? Id like to see rural areas and possibly do some free english classes somewhere so i dont get bored doing yoga and getiing massages all the time….What do u do for… Read more »
Hi Peter, thanks for reaching out! Hope these will help answer your list of questions: 1. There are absolutely single male and female foreigners living here in Thailand. Specifically in the expat hubs of Chiang Mai, Bangkok, Pattaya, Phuket, and Koh Samui. 2. Smoky season. 3. This is our complete budget breakdown for 2015. We think it will help you get a better idea of what $1,500 would give you. 4. Yes, we have recently visited some of the museums and historic landmarks associated with the Vietnam War and the Khmer Rouge. 5. How to rent a motorbike. 6. We… Read more »
Wow three years, can’t believe how the time fly’s! It was great to meet you then and although our paths havn’t crossed again I’m really glad to see you guys are still in Chiang Mai and still enjoying it. Did Angela ever learn Thai?
Yeah, things have worked out well here. We haven’t found another Thai city we like as much as Chiang Mai. Angela’s been studying Thai on and off and has progressed, but she’s still not at your level!